Comments on: You may skip the Pledge of Allegiance http://libertarianrock.com/1999/04/you-may-skip-the-pledge-of-allegiance-2/ Teenagers live in a totalitarian state. Mandatory schooling. Curfews. Prohibition. Libertarian Rockstars are fighting back. Thu, 10 May 2012 23:00:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: change http://libertarianrock.com/1999/04/you-may-skip-the-pledge-of-allegiance-2/comment-page-1/#comment-500 change Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:22:00 +0000 http://libertarianrock.com/wordpress/?p=409#comment-500 In response to your math teacher very informative however I disagree about the standing part that is still considered as participating if you can stand why not recite it as well. A mute person will stand to show support because they can not speak. If a student that doesn't believe in the pledge stands he is still perceived as participating. The key issue here is forcing and or not informing a student that they have a right to refuse after all this is an environment of teaching why not teach the children that they do not have to feel forced to participate in the pledge. In response to your math teacher very informative however I disagree about the standing part that is still considered as participating if you can stand why not recite it as well. A mute person will stand to show support because they can not speak. If a student that doesn’t believe in the pledge stands he is still perceived as participating. The key issue here is forcing and or not informing a student that they have a right to refuse after all this is an environment of teaching why not teach the children that they do not have to feel forced to participate in the pledge.

]]> By: change http://libertarianrock.com/1999/04/you-may-skip-the-pledge-of-allegiance-2/comment-page-1/#comment-499 change Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:10:00 +0000 http://libertarianrock.com/wordpress/?p=409#comment-499 I appreciate your comment however I believe you are misinformed giving your age of 18 years it's understandable and forums like this is good for informing and getting informed. The pledge of allegiance has nothing to do with the soldiers that are fighting to keep our freedom intact if you asked a soldier what they are fighting for none of them would say a Flag. The pledge starts out by saying I pledge allegiance to the flag notice no mention of soldiers or freedom. I ask you to look up the definition of pledge and allegiance after reading these definitions see if you feel the same way. Sometimes we repeat what we heard or what has been told to us without finding out where it really came from and what was the real purpose. You have a mindset of let me research this before commenting or believing. I appreciate your comment however I believe you are misinformed
giving your age of 18 years it’s understandable and forums like this is good for informing and getting informed. The pledge of allegiance has nothing to do with the soldiers that are fighting to keep our freedom intact if you asked a soldier what they are fighting for none of them would say a Flag. The pledge starts out by saying I pledge allegiance to the flag notice no mention of soldiers or freedom. I ask you to look up the definition of pledge and allegiance after reading these definitions see if you feel the same way. Sometimes we repeat what we heard or what has been told to us without finding out where it really came from and what was the real purpose. You have a mindset of let me research this before commenting or believing.

]]> By: Reggy7821 http://libertarianrock.com/1999/04/you-may-skip-the-pledge-of-allegiance-2/comment-page-1/#comment-494 Reggy7821 Tue, 28 Feb 2012 00:41:00 +0000 http://libertarianrock.com/wordpress/?p=409#comment-494 UNDER GOD. Any one see that as a religious view atheists should not have to say the pledge UNDER GOD.
Any one see that as a religious view atheists should not have to say the pledge

]]> By: Sintaderp http://libertarianrock.com/1999/04/you-may-skip-the-pledge-of-allegiance-2/comment-page-1/#comment-488 Sintaderp Tue, 27 Dec 2011 12:06:00 +0000 http://libertarianrock.com/wordpress/?p=409#comment-488 Wait wait wait...you actually think that the flag and pledge has ANYTHING to do with troops? I don't want to live on this planet anymore. My flag? I'd rather have my rights. I would gladly leave this country if I wasn't poor, and young. So please, continue to be ignorant. I applaud you and your holier than thou attitude. Wait wait wait…you actually think that the flag and pledge has ANYTHING to do with troops? I don’t want to live on this planet anymore. My flag? I’d rather have my rights. I would gladly leave this country if I wasn’t poor, and young. So please, continue to be ignorant. I applaud you and your holier than thou attitude.

]]> By: DROI http://libertarianrock.com/1999/04/you-may-skip-the-pledge-of-allegiance-2/comment-page-1/#comment-459 DROI Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:05:00 +0000 http://libertarianrock.com/wordpress/?p=409#comment-459 I love brainwashed Patriots like you.<br>The troops are nothing more than thugs.<br>They serve no one except for their masters known as politicians.<br>Politicians are so lucky they have people like you campaigning for them, they're also glad they have so many idiots willing to die in the name of patriotism! I love brainwashed Patriots like you.
The troops are nothing more than thugs.
They serve no one except for their masters known as politicians.
Politicians are so lucky they have people like you campaigning for them, they're also glad they have so many idiots willing to die in the name of patriotism!

]]> By: guest http://libertarianrock.com/1999/04/you-may-skip-the-pledge-of-allegiance-2/comment-page-1/#comment-458 guest Mon, 14 Nov 2011 21:47:02 +0000 http://libertarianrock.com/wordpress/?p=409#comment-458 If you're going to live in this country and be able to live free, then yes, you should stand and pledge to your country. You're not only saluting the country, but the men and women who FOUGHT for you. Put their lives at risk for YOU, who thinks you have the "right" to sit down and not even give them a minute of your time? I am 18 years old and out of high school and I was the only student in all of my classes to stand up and salute our flag. Well, MY flag. If you dont stand up it shouldn't be considered yours. Our country was fouunded on those beliefs, and for whatever reason you dont agree with them, then this country isn't the place for you. America should be a place for patriotism and people willing to stand up for it, not people who dont even have the common courtesy to stand up for it. "It is more patriotic to stand up for your rights than to stand up for the pledge." Right. Next time you choose not to stand up, remember what our flag stands for, and the people who gave you what it stands for. If you dont appreciate that, get the hell out of this country. If you're going to live in this country and be able to live free, then yes, you should stand and pledge to your country. You're not only saluting the country, but the men and women who FOUGHT for you. Put their lives at risk for YOU, who thinks you have the “right” to sit down and not even give them a minute of your time? I am 18 years old and out of high school and I was the only student in all of my classes to stand up and salute our flag. Well, MY flag. If you dont stand up it shouldn't be considered yours. Our country was fouunded on those beliefs, and for whatever reason you dont agree with them, then this country isn't the place for you. America should be a place for patriotism and people willing to stand up for it, not people who dont even have the common courtesy to stand up for it. “It is more patriotic to stand up for your rights than to stand up for the pledge.” Right. Next time you choose not to stand up, remember what our flag stands for, and the people who gave you what it stands for. If you dont appreciate that, get the hell out of this country.

]]> By: Isuldor http://libertarianrock.com/1999/04/you-may-skip-the-pledge-of-allegiance-2/comment-page-1/#comment-449 Isuldor Thu, 08 Sep 2011 19:01:23 +0000 http://libertarianrock.com/wordpress/?p=409#comment-449 I am a teenager. I love the constitution, and what our country was founded on. But, given the way that our government operates within our country and the rest of the world, I will not pledge to this republic. I am a teenager. I love the constitution, and what our country was founded on. But, given the way that our government operates within our country and the rest of the world, I will not pledge to this republic.

]]> By: yourmathteacher http://libertarianrock.com/1999/04/you-may-skip-the-pledge-of-allegiance-2/comment-page-1/#comment-447 yourmathteacher Thu, 08 Sep 2011 01:24:05 +0000 http://libertarianrock.com/wordpress/?p=409#comment-447 What did you do, get to the part you disagreed with and stop reading to post your own rant? Try reading it to the end.  The teachers don't want to force anyone to do anything, we just want you to learn the content. What did you do, get to the part you disagreed with and stop reading to post your own rant? Try reading it to the end.  The teachers don't want to force anyone to do anything, we just want you to learn the content.

]]> By: Will737 http://libertarianrock.com/1999/04/you-may-skip-the-pledge-of-allegiance-2/comment-page-1/#comment-443 Will737 Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:17:29 +0000 http://libertarianrock.com/wordpress/?p=409#comment-443 Anyone, yourmathteacher or otherwise, who forces or even who helps to coerce children into saying a pledge at odds with their beliefs, is in fact acting as little dictator.  "I was forced to do it.  I had my orders" is ever the cry of underlings in a totalitarian state.  Any such orders from a school board are strictly legally unenforceable in any public school in America.  Any teacher who insists on such conformity, and who does not acknowledge that the pledge is optional is, in my opinion,  a coward and morally inadequate to be a proper teacher for anyone. Anyone, yourmathteacher or otherwise, who forces or even who helps to coerce children into saying a pledge at odds with their beliefs, is in fact acting as little dictator.  “I was forced to do it.  I had my orders” is ever the cry of underlings in a totalitarian state.  Any such orders from a school board are strictly legally unenforceable in any public school in America.  Any teacher who insists on such conformity, and who does not acknowledge that the pledge is optional is, in my opinion,  a coward and morally inadequate to be a proper teacher for anyone.

]]> By: yourmathteacher http://libertarianrock.com/1999/04/you-may-skip-the-pledge-of-allegiance-2/comment-page-1/#comment-437 yourmathteacher Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:43:50 +0000 http://libertarianrock.com/wordpress/?p=409#comment-437 Teenagers are not entitled to all of the civil rights of adults. They do not (thankfully) have the right to walk into a store and buy a gun. They do not have the right to vote until they are 18, and they can't serve in the military until they are 18. If you think really hard about it, you'll understand why. Similarly, teenagers are not allowed complete freedom of expression in a school setting because an orderly environment is necessary for the safety of all and the education of all - teenagers may not interrupt instruction and they may not dress inappropriately even if showing off their underwear is the current popular "freedom" of expression.<br><br>The reasoning behind the Supreme Court decision wasn't solely about the 1st Amendment, because the original case wasn't about freedom of expression. As you've noted, it was about freedom of religion, but that wasn't all: it was also about the 14th Amendment. Due process was not being allowed to the parents of the Jehovah's Witness children who were expelled from school for being "insubordinate" and the parents were charged and fined for their children's "delinquency." The ACLU hijacked the case and made it solely about freedom of expression.<br><br>Teachers are not dictators of their own little regimes, trying to force everyone into robotic compliance for their own maniacal pleasure: they have wording written into the contracts with the districts that say they will uphold district policy (or they will be fired for breach of contract) and district policy usually will allow students to "opt out" of reciting the pledge if their parents send a note, because the students are children who have to have parental permission for just about everything. Teachers get around this ruling by asking the students who don't wish to say the pledge to at least stand up, because that is the social norm. After all, if you were in a foreign country and their national anthem were broadcast and everyone around you were to stand up, you would too, out of respect. Some teachers will also allow students who vehemently oppose the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance to step outside of the classroom during the ceremony to protect the peace in the room and their contracts at the same time. Teenagers are not entitled to all of the civil rights of adults. They do not (thankfully) have the right to walk into a store and buy a gun. They do not have the right to vote until they are 18, and they can't serve in the military until they are 18. If you think really hard about it, you'll understand why. Similarly, teenagers are not allowed complete freedom of expression in a school setting because an orderly environment is necessary for the safety of all and the education of all – teenagers may not interrupt instruction and they may not dress inappropriately even if showing off their underwear is the current popular “freedom” of expression.

The reasoning behind the Supreme Court decision wasn't solely about the 1st Amendment, because the original case wasn't about freedom of expression. As you've noted, it was about freedom of religion, but that wasn't all: it was also about the 14th Amendment. Due process was not being allowed to the parents of the Jehovah's Witness children who were expelled from school for being “insubordinate” and the parents were charged and fined for their children's “delinquency.” The ACLU hijacked the case and made it solely about freedom of expression.

Teachers are not dictators of their own little regimes, trying to force everyone into robotic compliance for their own maniacal pleasure: they have wording written into the contracts with the districts that say they will uphold district policy (or they will be fired for breach of contract) and district policy usually will allow students to “opt out” of reciting the pledge if their parents send a note, because the students are children who have to have parental permission for just about everything. Teachers get around this ruling by asking the students who don't wish to say the pledge to at least stand up, because that is the social norm. After all, if you were in a foreign country and their national anthem were broadcast and everyone around you were to stand up, you would too, out of respect. Some teachers will also allow students who vehemently oppose the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance to step outside of the classroom during the ceremony to protect the peace in the room and their contracts at the same time.

]]>